Healing Happens Within with Razi Berry
Hello beautiful mavens.
We’re at Episode 130. And you know what that means, I’ve got at least 130 interviews under my belt here on this show. And I’m not tired. I’m equally as excited about every guest. I was thinking about this before I pushed record. Like, it’s hard to say anything different except for I love my guest today. Because, you know, I’m curating my guest list. I’m hand picking people that I admire, that I’d like to shine the light on and I want to hear more of their story. My guest today is no different. I have the beautiful Razi Berry with me today.
If you’re like, who the heck is Razi Berry, and is that her real name, I believe it’s definitely her real name. She’s the founder and publisher of the award winning publication called Naturopathic Doctor News and Review. It’s NDNR.com. If you haven’t heard of it, it’s now in its 14th year of publication. Also the International Journal of Naturopathic Medicine and the naturopathic medical resource for patients called Natural Path. So she’s out there doing it.
And I really enjoyed the part of our conversation that was around health and well being as it relates to emotions and just feeling things in our body. That kind of a topic is really my jam, from a personal perspective. So I had a lot of fun talking with Razi about that, but you’re going to hear all about her journey. What she thinks about the state of where we’re at in the wellness industry and so, so, so much more.
She’s hosted a couple of successful consumer health events the National Cancer Prevention Summit, as well as the Sugar Free Summer. She’s co-owned a successful naturopathic practice for 14 years has been awarded the prestigious title of champion of naturopathic medicine and in 2009 corporation of the year so she’s out there, she’s been doing this a while, she’s getting recognition and rewards and she’s contributing to the industry. So she is somebody you want to be following. And she resides right now in Scottsdale, Arizona. I believe her work is mostly around consulting for physicians and for naturopaths in the industry, primarily by hosting a mastermind and mentorship for practitioners. So definitely check that out if you’re interested.
Alright, beautiful mavens. I can’t wait to share more about the beautiful miss Razi Berry. So let’s get started.
I received the most awesome feedback from Jessica the other day, and she says Michelle has a special way of helping you take action and get results. There are a lot of marketing materials out there. Have you focused on your ideal client, I had that aha moment thanks to Michelle, which was to actually reflect on the clients we already have and see what we liked about our favorites. She also had us focus on what type of clients would not be a good match. Her profit planning lesson was outstanding and worth its weight in gold. And also, there’s more yes, there’s her visibility challenge. I had to get creative with putting myself out there and one of my favorite things that came out of this was a truly amazing video from one of my customers, as well as the best compliment I ever received in my life, which was I love you, you adorable light-filled creature. We are in business to help people feel and be better. And Michelle’s way of focusing on the importance of connecting with the right audience not only increases revenue, but also makes doing what we do so enjoyable as we are doing it with people who light us up.
And the reason I share that with you is because Jessica isn’t one of my private clients, she has been somebody in my audience who is taking advantage of the freebies, the things that I’m giving away for free, the value that I’m bringing every day to my audience, to you. And ultimately, she did become a client in some way shape or form by purchasing some of my products. But I wanted to share her story with you and encourage you if you haven’t already, to dive in to take advantage of what I’m putting out there. Because this crap works. You guys this works. And Jessica is just one testament to that. I have many more, but I wanted to share her words with you today. Thank you so much, Jessica. And for you, who’s sitting there wondering how do I get started? What is the first step to take what’s next for me, Michelle, I encourage you to head on over to MichelleMcGlade.com/fivesteps and grab your free download. Get started. It’s the five steps to a waitlist wellness practice. All right. Now let’s hear from the beautiful miss Razi Berry.
Hello, and welcome to the show.
Thank you, Michelle. It’s so great to be here. And today. I’m going to own being a maven.
Oh, I love that. Yeah. I love that you love that. So that’s cool. That’s a wrap it.
You can tell I like sit up a little straighter to him like she likes it.
Well, as we were saying off camera, maven, to me is a really vintage, beautiful way to say female entrepreneur. Let’s bring that word back. Good job for bringing that word back Michelle.
Thank you. So where in the world are you right now?
I am in sunny Scottsdale, Arizona. It’s about 80 degrees.
I’m jealous. I’m in the mountains. I love to be in the mountains. I choose to be in the mountains. We’re in the mountains in Vermont.
Oh, wow. I mean, there are mountains here, but not the way you have in Vermont. I prefer mountains to the ocean because of the feel of being grounded. So if I were to choose a body of water, I would definitely pick it a stream or creek.
We are the same I think…
No hate mail from people that live by the ocean.
I’ve always liked the mountains here. I know we’re getting on a total tangent, but this is fun. I lived in Colorado. So I’ve done the west side. But I love the mountains here. They’re covered in hardwoods. And there’s something about trees that make me feel really, really grounded, of course.
So I start my morning, every day by hugging a tree in my yard. I start that every day. It sounds silly and ridiculous. But if you do it, it sets your day for such an amazing energy. You know, because I go barefoot. Everyone knows now about grounding and how this electromagnetic field of the Earth gives as much to us as we give to it. Heartmath is doing really big research on, and trees roots just go deeper into that. And so when you hug a tree, you’re really connecting this energy field. It’s not woo woo, it’s reality. And so it really sets the tone. I used to, Michelle, start my day by checking my phone for urgent emails and I had to switch that up because I felt like I was getting out of sync with my own message.
I love that. So one of the things I did is I went back to my gratitude journal practice in the morning because I was doing exactly what you are saying, which is flip on the phone. You know, what emergency happened overnight, or who emailed me or it’s something silly. So how long have you been hugging trees and what’s changed? What started changing?
Well, I’m a tree lover. So I grow fruit trees. I have this hobby of trying to grow tropical fruit trees in the desert. So I have a lot of trees in my not very large yard. And I started hugging trees probably about five years ago. Yeah, someone called me a tree hugger. And I was like, I’m gonna try that.
Like, I’m a literal version and we’ll see what happens for me.
But I already was around trees a lot…so I bought the house from my parents that I grew up in about 10 years ago. And so there’s a few trees that my father planted. He’s now deceased. And so it’s a really great way I feel like I’m connecting to that love also.
So fruit trees. I just feel like we have this similar interest not that I’m growing fruit trees. But one of my friends is doing that with lemons in her house in DC. And I was visiting her and I was like, I want lemon trees now. Do you grow lemon trees?
I am. I’m looking at a lemon tree right now out my window.
Like the taste is so much different than a store bought. Anyway.
Oh, yeah. And they’re in bloom right now. So I wish that I could open this window. And you could all smell that. It’s really great. But we can have tree envy because you can grow things in Vermont that I would never be able to.
That’s the thing about the desert. It’s so dry. It’s so dry. But pros and cons man.
One of the things that tree hugging does for me, because I know we’re talking to mavens, is that it really helps me set the tone for using my intuition throughout the day, which is really important as an entrepreneur and a business owner. And as a woman. I think intuition is our birthright. And it’s something that we can tend to give up on because it seems so woo woo. But I will have to say that is really what I use most in my business. And it’s served me the best. The reason that intuition is supported by my tree hugging is rooted in science. I’ve been really geeking out on the science of interoception and enteroception
Tell us more…I’m like leaning into the screen.
So interoception is the awareness and discernment of our own bodily functions. Like you’ve heard, probably some women say that they know when they’re ovulating, right? That they can feel that happening. So weird. So when you really learn and practice, just like everything takes practice, building any muscle takes practice. If you really practice this body sense, then you can really start to feel those body systems and organs. And so there is a science to this, people have been tested for interoceptive ability, better at understanding and perceiving these body functions. And one study…well, there’s several studies, but one study basically explained that people that have better intuition or interoceptive ability, make better decisions when faced with a risky choice, and we make risky decisions as entrepreneurs every day. Well, this one study that I’m really fascinated by, it measured interoceptive ability of men who are all traders, futures traders on the London financial trading floor. And so they make very risky decisions, the money that they’re dealing with is not their own. So it’s very high stakes and futures is very, very risky. So what they did is they measured the those that had better interoceptive ability for being aware of heart rate, heartbeat count, variability, and also blood pressure changes. They made better decisions they made more money, and they had longer careers because those careers can die out really fast. Isn’t that fascinating? So really getting to my new mantra is “embodiment is the new mindfulness” as business owners we can get so stuck in our heads. And sometimes we feel like it’s a good thing. Like, let’s focus there are a lot of meditative practices take us out of this real world and into our mind or consciousness. And I think that can be a mistake. I feel the more that I accept I have this consciousness that helps me make decisions, this intuition that’s in my head, and maybe non local consciousness that helps me make risky decisions or business choices. But also, our physical body is where all of this takes place where it’s all translated and how we interact, business and otherwise. And so when we can really train ourselves to, to be more in touch with who we are in nature and the world around us, I have found that it has really expanded my business, it’s really created more wealth for me, your emotional regulation, ability, and has really increased my intuition.
Wow. I mean, I can I just not even having studied it, I can just relate to that. Because every time I get further and further away and more in my head, about just business stuff, and less in my gut, and like just really listening into the inner knowing it never works for me, no matter how hard I push. I know this and I’m like, I gotta go back, I just got to go back in leading with decisions from that place.
And we tend to really dismiss that or not value it as much because we say that it’s not logical, right? It’s that the decisions must be logical, but our bodies are so wise, there’s got to be some serious logic with regard to how all of our organs can talk to each other and our bodies create homeostasis, like walking on stage to give a talk, your body increases its heart, your heart rate to deal with the perceived stress. And when you walk outside, and it’s cold outside, your body knows how to regulate that. So there’s a lot of logic in our bodies. And I think it’s important that we don’t dismiss that. So that is where I am right now. That’s that’s what’s helping me in my business right now.
You said embodiment is the new mindfulness.
That’s my new mantra.
I love that. So okay, did you just come out this way? This is how you were as a child, is this your first gig, you know, tell us how you got here. The abbreviated version of course.
I did have two transformative experiences. I had one when I was 7 and another one when I was 14. When I was seven years old. I was out in the front yard saying goodbye to some friends that were visiting. And this bee flew past me kind of around my head. And suddenly, I had this moment of I thought it was imaginative as a child. But I felt like I was inside, like, on the bee circling the sun. It was just this moment of being immersed in this light. And there was like a communion with consciousness at that time. And it seemed to last a really long time. And I remember after it happened, I said to my mom, I said, Mom, was I just born? Now? She said, honey, no. Well, I would think about that, from time to time daydreaming as a child. And as an adult, I later learned about the seven year cycles of consciousness that a child is really rooted more in this spiritual realm at the age seven. So I think what was happening then is I was coming into my body, if you believe in those cycles, sort of that pedagogue of these seven year cycles. So that happened, and I was always a child seeking God, I was raised Catholic, but I was always like, whatever religion I would explore, I really get really deep into it. And I’ve explored many.
I had an eating disorder as a teenager and I was in the hospital, I was dying of heart failure as a result of that. So as I was literally dying, my family was saying goodbye, our family priest came in and did last rites. And the next day, I had a near death experience. And I won’t go into all the boring details of that.
Okay, we are back for another interview on her near death experience. Okay, keep going.
Well, like the short version was that the doctor was saying to my mom, and my four year old brother who is in the room at the time this is such a shame because she’s doing it to herself. And I did feel so much shame. And then suddenly I was kind of back in that same experience I had as a child when that bee flew past me. I was in this orb of light. I felt like I was in a dewdrop with light just bouncing in every direction. And I had this sense of understanding and of love. And there was a lot of details and it was an eternity. And it was just instant at the same time, but I healed completely after that, which was so fascinating because prior to that, anytime I was sick, a doctor had to do something to me or give something to me to heal, and it didn’t work. This time, the healing happens spontaneously, which begs the question, where does healing come from? Then it doesn’t come from the doctor, this doctor, these nutritionists, psychologists, all these people weren’t able to help me but I did heal. Which brought me to the work I do today in sort of championing naturopathic medicine, because it is a paradigm of medicine that believes that all healing is self healing. So whether it’s something the doctor gives or does to you, the end of the day, it’s your experience, and we have this vital force that causes us to live and to grow and to strive for betterment and homeostasis, as we talked about before, So I’ve always been seeking to be in tune with who I am. I don’t profess to be an expert at it. We’re all students here, including me, especially me, maybe. But those two experiences did really set the tone for me, I think, I’m just looking at things from a little bit of a different perspective. It has served me in business. And it’s been difficult as well, because business isn’t really done in that way. So as an entrepreneur, it really serves me but as an employee it didn’t serve me as well.
Exactly, exactly. Wow. I mean, you could have run away from that, though, or you could have run towards more of a spiritual leader, how did you end up on naturopathic medicine?
Well, so I had that experience of healing from it. And then, you know, you think that after that, maybe I would have lived my life perfectly, so grateful that I didn’t die, I had just all the same health ups and downs after that. But in my mid 20s, I came down with chronic fatigue syndrome and fibromyalgia. And I was really still rooted in the allopathic paradigm, I’d been raised that way. So it was going to several different places, clinics, to hospitals to help me and all they had to offer me was pills. And when they started prescribing pain pills, I was like, no, like, I don’t, I think I had this, I did have this kind of relationship with my consciousness that I knew I didn’t want to cut that off. And so I was fearful of taking pain medications, which they thought was weird, and maybe you need to see a shrink if you won’t take a pain pill. And so at that point, I was like, You’re fired. You are fired. So I fired them. And I went on the search to find my own health, it led me to naturopathic medicine, which was just amazing again, and honored that belief system I already had that healing comes from within. And so that’s how, that’s how it all started. And that’s where I am today. So I publish Naturopathic Doctor News and Review. I’m in my 14th year of printing of that, and it’s really a case study. So any clinician listening, it’s really great way to learn from naturopathic doctors who are leaders in natural medicine. And then I’ve expanded into the consumer space with summits and things like that. So I feel like it’s been a real honor to be able to do this work and help let people know that there is another way to deal with illness because I feel like it’s a personal decision. And oftentimes, people aren’t presented with more than one choice.
I know, that is like, that is my soapbox. We have not exactly similar journeys, but I’ve had so many health challenges – of my own doing of course – and then of my own undoing. I think a lot of people who are in this industry really want so badly to help others to overcome – like you had to fire somebody or I had a doctor telling me you’re just going to grow out of it not giving any options, you know, and not wanting people to have to suffer like that if they choose. There are so many more options.
It’s really true. And I know this audience is mavens and entrepreneurs, but I do have on my website, if you find me there, I do have an e-book that’s my most popular called, is it time to fire your doctor. So you can go grab that if you’re so inclined. You need somebody behind you rooting for you, if it’s time to fire your doctor.
And it’s just a natural part of our Western culture, you know, to even consider firing your doctor.
And this is where we have lost our way. Because as you say, culture is this norm that is made up and we subscribe to and ascribe to. And it has nothing to do with our intuition or what makes us unique. For as much as our culture is trying to espouse how to be different. There sure is a lot of be just like me or be just like everyone else going on. So we’re confused as humanity.
That’s a powerful statement, you just said, to be honest, like you just called it out, quietly articulated what I consider to be like, the smack down right here. We want all this choice in differentiation. You didn’t say those exact words, but yet, it’s not okay to be different.
Yeah, it’s just really confusing. And I have two daughters that are 9 and 11. And I worry for them. It’s so confusing. So I think that the best thing that we can do for ourselves and for our children, is to really learn and discern who we are from everyone else, and how to do things differently. And to understand that there’s more than one way to solve a problem. And I think that’s part of the pain of being an entrepreneur as we’re often forging new roads, and making new mistakes. And I think that is really an important part of self and spiritual development to not necessarily try to do something the way that someone else did something. Like, when I started publishing a journal, I had no experience in publishing, I never worked for a publisher. I love to write, but it was mostly short stories, fiction and poetry. So I, you know, I decided to every day do one thing to learn about that. And I think I probably did a lot of things very ass backwards. But I also didn’t make other people’s mistakes. They were all my own mistakes. There’s a lot of gifts in that in that.
Do you remember why you decided to start the journal?
Yes. So I was so in love with naturopathic medicine, because I have just been so disappointed with everything else. And maybe I also had this, you know, because last time I was so sick, it was a spontaneous healing. So maybe I thought, this is supposed to be so easy, and it wasn’t and nobody could help me. So when I found this paradigm of naturopathic medicine, which is a philosophy that is so different from this prescription, we’ll give you this herb, there’s a philosophy that’s so different, it’s about really supporting the body’s own ability to heal. And so when I found that I became evangelical, like, just the way somebody, you know, you see a movie that changes your perspective, and you want everyone to go see it, and you almost take the sense of pride, like you didn’t produce or direct that movie or even act in it, but you get so excited, or a restaurant that you love, you know, so I became just so evangelical. And I was just kind of angry that there was not a journal that existed. And I took that frustration and decided to just do it. So at the time, I was working in real estate prior to that I’d worked as an executive in cosmetics industry, which is crazy fragrances. Really. I wish it turned out that my chronic fatigue syndrome, Fibromyalgia was a result of being exposed to many of those chemicals.
So it’s all part of the journey. Yes, I became just really evangelical and decided, like, if somebody hasn’t done this, I’m going to do it. So I just kind of took it upon myself. And I feel like as you probably feel with the work you do, sometimes you feel like maybe you’ve been chosen, like everyone’s been chosen to do their part. Right? When you get inspired, and that word inspire is bringing in spirit. And so I think when you’re inspired, it’s spirits way of saying this is your piece of the puzzle. I need you to click in here. And that’s what I feel happened for me.
So kind of coming back full circle now and and wanting to present choice, present choice and your healing and your healthcare and your well being. What do you see the practitioners role? You know whether that’s a naturopathic doctor and acupuncturist, functional medicine. But do you see the role being?
Such a great question, because first of all, you have to see yourself as an entrepreneur slash the dirty word salesperson, we’re so afraid of a dirty word sales.
So happy you’re saying this!
We you have something that somebody else needs, it’s the responsibility to bring that to their awareness. And its responsibility to yourself to, you know, except your place in that exchange, which I hear is you probably do all the time from doctors, like I’m not a business person, I didn’t learn business. Well, that’s a good thing. You didn’t learn business in medical school, because that would be weird. But that’s where there’s places like you, or you can figure that out. But you know, throughout history, there’s this legacy healers, have always been revered and given the best like the fattest calf, or the gold coins, or the most beautiful textile, that the women, maybe we’ve, you know, they’ve always been honored and really well paid. And I think that one way to accept your role as a salesperson or entrepreneur, if you are in the healing arts, is to accept that that’s your legacy, and honor all those people that came before you. So I think that’s a good place to start. Secondly, the way that this culture that we’ve been sort of throwing tomatoes at sees sales and business transaction, you know, people are so mistrustful now with good reason. So now, it’s really important to understand what motivates people to make decisions. And part of that also comes through through intuition. But it also comes from understanding that people make decisions based on what they hope, or what they fear. So there’s like a hope, or there’s like a fear of loss, or there’s a hope of gain. And to understand that and not exploit that, but to understand what that is.
And so right now, what excites me, and what I teach the doctors that I coach is, in creating, not community, but a movement. So, Michelle, to me, the difference is in a community, it’s people coming together for a common cause wanting to teach, share, and maybe even translate or initiate people into that belief system. So then they can partake in what you have to offer or what your messages. But since people are so mistrustful, what’s a better way to do it, which is what I’m saying what a movement is, is people like minded espousing a specific idea, that are kind of preaching to the choir. So think about, think about like veganism. So I’m not a vegan, but if anyone listening is that’s fine, we can still be friends. But people who espouse this belief in veganism, it’s a very galvanized and they’re really passionate about this. And so there’s these groups and humans where they’re just high-fiving each other, right? So what that fervor does, instead of trying to convince you to eat this way, it just galvanizes you against, you know. So that’s not a good way to make sales. But when you create a movement of people who believe what you believe, it creates such a fervor that people on their own, they seem really happy over there, and they come to you and want to learn about it. So veganism isn’t the best example. But another example is the anti vaccine movement, right? They’re not necessarily changing anyone’s mind. But they’re creating this fervor of a movement where they all believe that they believe in such a dynamic and powerful way, that when people do come into their fold, it’s because they’re in awe, and they’re watching and they sort of peek in, and then they make their own decision. So I think that’s creating a movement, again, not trying to convince, you’re not trying to exploit but it’s just standing so firmly in what you believe that people who already believe what you believe, and that seems kind of counterintuitive because you think no I need the new customer. But then those people are magnetized like a moth to a flame.
I was thinking the same thing when you were talking.
Oh, great, yeah, we’re in sync.
So what’s your movement that you’re creating.
So my I have two movements. So one is, my movement is about naturopathic living and bringing people who want a better way to heal and to live and to prevent, to come to this movement of naturopathic medicine and doctors who have this expert, doctoral level of understanding this. The other movement is kind of a personal gig for me. And it’s called love is medicine. And it’s really this convergence of where love and health come together and how our, how our neurotransmitters and our consciousness and our thoughts, our relationships to ourselves, and the world around us and each other really affect us in a very physical way, not just an emotional way, you and I have a fun, really small private group on Facebook I’m having a lot of fun with Love is Medicine. And it’s what I do, too. It’s like my hobby to explore the ideas that I like to explore and people that enjoy that can do that along with me.
That is cool. Do you feel that that is your next level of work?
I do. I do. I mean, my first love is definitely what I do with naturopathic medicine and the naturopathic doctors. But yeah, I see that I see myself doing more and more of that. And there, there might be a book in there.
Based on your personal journey, you know, and really listening to you share some of those experiences. And I know there’s like way more than just one interview behind all of that. And hearing you talk about and this resonates for me like I’m in your tribe now, because I’ve gone through that experience to where I live my emotion. I live things in my body. Yeah, I experienced them there. And I don’t know, I haven’t met anybody else yet in my life that has articulated it the way you have.
See there are no accidents. Here, and yet we’re far away from each other. We’re one big connected family.
So one of the questions I’ve been asking other leaders, I would say in the industry, you know, one of the gaps that I see is a lack of leadership. Actually, you know, one of the I don’t know if fear, but one of the things I’m concerned about, not just for naturopathic doctors, but for all wellness practitioners is, for lack of a better way of saying it, having maybe the western model take over some of the traditional modalities that freaks me out. I don’t want to see it move in that direction. I want to see more leaders rise up within our community. Do you see that as a gap too right now?
I do. And if I were to say what my fear is, is that when people want to explore these modalities, what is their intention behind it? And also, do they have a really firm understanding? Because once again, you can’t really someone can present to you clinically with a sore throat, and instead of giving them an antibiotic, you just give them this herb? That’s the same mentality. So the good news is that when you have those disconnects, it causes a rise in these movements that we’re talking about, yeah, it causes people to stand up and speak and do something about it. So it can act as a motivator. There’s that fear of loss or hope of gain. So these practitioners fear of losing that foothold, and it causes them to rise up. And people like you and I who are helping business, you know, people. You know, we understand that and so we’re there to help. And whenever there’s a fear on the other side, it provokes it provokes action. I tend to take that and it takes away my fear. And I get excited.
Yeah. Do you? I mean, you’ve probably talked to different leaders, you know, that I have, do you feel that this is a conversation going on at a certain level that people are being provoked, and they’re excited to create movements just like you are?
Not everyone. I wish more were I wish more were and so whoever’s listening, this is your call. Stand up, girl.
Stand up. What a wonderful, powerful conversation. I am so glad that we’ve had a chance to connect and before we wrap the interview, I know you have a gift and want to give a shout out to your gift.
Yeah, it’s just a it’s just a training. Just some more information on what we talked about about creating a movement. I think there’s some it’s a video that I did with a colleague of mine. And it just really, hopefully, we’ll plant some seeds of ideas and inspiration in those listening to really see how you can come from more dynamic, less fearful, a little more strategic approach and building your brand. And and think of it as a movement instead of a community and it will kind of help further differentiate between the two.
Oh, I love that. I love that. Thank you so much. We’ll make sure the link goes in the show notes. Thank you so much for being on the show.
It’s a delight to get to know you and happy to know you.
You’re not done with me. We’re not done with each other.
Well, we’ll share tree hugging.
Before we call it a wrap. I wanted to plant a seed for you this week. One of the things that is has been on my list, and that I’m actually getting up to this week in my business is getting out into my community and attending a couple different networking events. I’m looking for a new place, or a new community to hang with, and network with and connect with in in my local area. And I think that in this digital world in this online world, it gets missed that there’s not enough time, or should I say and not enough emphasis placed on just good old fashion connecting and that’s why I you know, that’s why I wanted Scott on the show, Scott Gerber. If you listened to him a couple weeks back, he talked a lot about connecting and building relationships. And so this is my seed that I’m planting for you, Maven, I want you to take a good hard look at where you’re spending your time and your business to grow your business in terms of sales and marketing. And do you have time allocated to relationship development, to connections to community because without that, I believe that you will struggle, I believe that you will continue to struggle that your business will not grow as fast as it could. And that I’ll just throw it out there. You may not even make it. So I’m laying down the law on that this week, planting the seed to encourage you to get out there and to connect to follow up to build relationships. Alright, until next week. Yeah, until next week, we’ll talk to you soon.